Comments on: Which came first?

By: Todd Helmkamp

Todd Helmkamp — Wed, 20 Dec 2006 21:15:32 +0000

Excellent! Thanks, “Mom”!!

By: Anita

Anita — Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:55:54 +0000

I believe that signs and wonders must be in line with the Word of God. I think that is how you separate the ‘wheat from the chaff’.

The scripture is specific of many things, however not everything. The best references to spiritual gifts is I Corinthians 12, 13 and 14. Much is layed out there and the ‘order’ of things.

I learned, and often remember something that really stuck with me from Bible School. How do we know or find the will of God? There will be 3 witnesses (Matt 18:16)I believe they are:
1) The Word (does it go agaist His Word?)
2) The inner Witness of the Spirit of God in us (do we feel excited, or troubled?)
3) Godly council (what does my Pastor or someone I really trust say about this?)

The trouble might come if we depend on just what we ‘feel’ and go against one of the other areas. Or maybe listen to ‘godly’ council, and it wasn’t godly at all….

Another thing I use to know if it’s from God (a spiritual gift) is the question: Does it lift us Jesus or man? John 16:13-14 If it lifts up man, it’s not from God.

I believe we will see more spiritual gifts as we seek Jesus! Want more of Him. This is part of what Adam opened with.

By: Todd Helmkamp

Todd Helmkamp — Wed, 20 Dec 2006 16:35:34 +0000

I would pose the question: “What are these signs and wonders?”

Not that God is limited in any way, but what are the ways in which He works most commonly?

What are some Biblical examples? What are some examples of phenomena seen in recent years that you think aren’t genuine?

I am asking this in true need. There is so much stuff out there it’s hard to separate the wheat from the chaff, and Scripture isn’t always specific on what is good.

By: joe

joe — Wed, 20 Dec 2006 08:44:32 +0000

@adam: yeah…that’s exactly what I meant to say, but it didn’t come across that way. I made a terrible horrible no good very bad use of the word inconsequential.

Sorry if I confused anyone!

I was trying to emphasize the point that the signs and wonders are only important if we are already seeking after God.

I’ve been really sick since Monday and doped up on lots of medicine…I don’t think I should try to comment when I’m stuffed full of flu medication anymore!

By: Adam

Adam — Wed, 20 Dec 2006 06:21:46 +0000

@Joe: I actually MEANT to write “consequential.” You completely misquoted me. There was never a typo. It’s a real word. It means they follow as a result of something else. That was the whole point of this blog.
@Everybody, for clarification: The signs and wonders follow as a result (they are consequential) of seeking God Himself. Sometimes we seek the signs and wonders of God instead of seeking God. The best word to use is the one that got skewed: “consequential.” The logical line of reasoning would be that as we seek God, we will begin to seek His signs and wonders. But we shouldn’t jump the gun and just go after the mystical stuff if we haven’t even met God before. Seeking God leads to the signs and wonders. They are consequential… they come because we seek.

My pastor hit the nail on the head last weekend when he said, “The signs and wonders of God will be present in the lives of those who seek after Him.”

By: joe

joe — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 21:14:08 +0000

Yes, blogging can be dangerous…it’s communication happening outside of the normal context.

But I have found that it forces me to think through want I want to say more thoroughly, except in this case

By: joe

joe — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:13:02 +0000

I guess I made poor use of the word inconsequential. What I meant to say, and after re-reading what I said I didn’t communicate this very clearly at all…

If I am seeking signs and wonders in place of God, then I am on a fools errand.

But, if I am truly seeking God then I will find myself naturally desiring to see signs and wonders as a natural outgrowth of my relationship with Him.

Guess, I should have re-read what I typed…

By: joe

joe — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:23:57 +0000

I’m completely with you on this, Adam…ummmm…that is if you mean that the signs, wonder and special gifts of God are inconsequential.

If we seek after God for the signs and wonders, then we are pursuing God with an agenda. We don’t love Him!

But, if we seek after God, as a natural outgrowth of our love for Him, signs and wonders will show up.

If they don’t show up, God will still be God, and is still just as worthy of our praise, adoration, worship…

Want scriptural evidence? 2 Peter 1:3-11…God has given us everything we need for life and godliness…what else do we need?