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	<title>Comments on: Projected Holiness</title>
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	<description>{blog of adam}</description>
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		<title>By: random thoughts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Most Beautiful Wedding Dress Ever</title>
		<link>http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-455</link>
		<dc:creator>random thoughts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Most Beautiful Wedding Dress Ever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/#comment-455</guid>
		<description>[...] I had a conversation with a friend the other night, one of those conversations that starts before midnight and ends when you suddenly realize that the sun has come up. It was a good conversation. We talked about all kinds of things. But one of the things we talked about has really stuck out in my mind, and it has to do with so-called &#8216;projected holiness.&#8217; This topic seems to have been a hot one recently on the little circle of blogs that I read. Check out Adam&#8217;s post, Todd&#8217;s post and my post. You&#8217;ll see what I mean. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I had a conversation with a friend the other night, one of those conversations that starts before midnight and ends when you suddenly realize that the sun has come up. It was a good conversation. We talked about all kinds of things. But one of the things we talked about has really stuck out in my mind, and it has to do with so-called &#8216;projected holiness.&#8217; This topic seems to have been a hot one recently on the little circle of blogs that I read. Check out Adam&#8217;s post, Todd&#8217;s post and my post. You&#8217;ll see what I mean. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: My Brother&#8217;s Keeper? &#124; raNdOM ThOughTs</title>
		<link>http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-438</link>
		<dc:creator>My Brother&#8217;s Keeper? &#124; raNdOM ThOughTs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/#comment-438</guid>
		<description>[...] I had a conversation with a friend the other night, one of those conversations that starts before midnight and ends when you suddenly realize that the sun has come up. It was a good conversation. We talked about all kinds of things. But one of the things we talked about has really stuck out in my mind, and it has to do with so-called &#8216;projected holiness.&#8217; This topic seems to have been a hot one recently on the little circle of blogs that I read. Check out Adam&#8217;s post, Todd&#8217;s post and my post. You&#8217;ll see what I mean. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I had a conversation with a friend the other night, one of those conversations that starts before midnight and ends when you suddenly realize that the sun has come up. It was a good conversation. We talked about all kinds of things. But one of the things we talked about has really stuck out in my mind, and it has to do with so-called &#8216;projected holiness.&#8217; This topic seems to have been a hot one recently on the little circle of blogs that I read. Check out Adam&#8217;s post, Todd&#8217;s post and my post. You&#8217;ll see what I mean. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: One of Those &#8220;Aha!&#8221; Moments&#8230; &#171; Pensées</title>
		<link>http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-406</link>
		<dc:creator>One of Those &#8220;Aha!&#8221; Moments&#8230; &#171; Pensées</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jan 2007 19:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/#comment-406</guid>
		<description>[...] Posted by toddhelmkamp on January 8th, 2007  So I&#8217;ve been having a conversation (via email) with my good friend Adam about a recent post of his on his blog.  It was called Projected Holiness.  It cause quite an uproar with many, including me.  Not that anyone was angry(as far as I know), it&#8217;s just a sensitive topic.  Plenty of misunderstanding.  I completely misunderstood his point, and he was kind enough to explain himself further.  Which led to the title of this post, when I had an &#8220;Aha!&#8221; moment.  The email is reproduced below.  Enjoy! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Posted by toddhelmkamp on January 8th, 2007  So I&#8217;ve been having a conversation (via email) with my good friend Adam about a recent post of his on his blog.  It was called Projected Holiness.  It cause quite an uproar with many, including me.  Not that anyone was angry(as far as I know), it&#8217;s just a sensitive topic.  Plenty of misunderstanding.  I completely misunderstood his point, and he was kind enough to explain himself further.  Which led to the title of this post, when I had an &#8220;Aha!&#8221; moment.  The email is reproduced below.  Enjoy! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: at raNdOM ThOughTs</title>
		<link>http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-405</link>
		<dc:creator>at raNdOM ThOughTs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jan 2007 08:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/#comment-405</guid>
		<description>[...] A friend of mine recently made a very good and valid point about holiness on his blog. You should take a second and go read it! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A friend of mine recently made a very good and valid point about holiness on his blog. You should take a second and go read it! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-404</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 19:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/#comment-404</guid>
		<description>My word. This has gotten sort of off topic, much farther out than I ever intended. That&#039;s normally not a huge deal, but its a little frustrating to me because I made a really good point about holiness but it seems folk are busy picking it apart instead of getting my point (which I&#039;m not sure if anyone has really gotten my point yet). This isn&#039;t that controversial. Let me try to explain it more clearly, getting to the very heart of the matter. (I think its more clear right here than any other time, so this sort of &quot;overrides&quot; everything else. I&#039;m allowed to do that... its my blog):

True holiness is intended to firstly be something that&#039;s between God, myself, and nobody else. It&#039;s internal. The result of this will be a holiness that&#039;s visible to others. Get that? One naturally &lt;em&gt;results&lt;/em&gt; in the other. Often we get it confused and skip the internal part and we just make a holiness that everyone can see. This type of holiness is not rooted in an honest internal change but in pride. We just put on a projected holiness, a surface holiness that&#039;s really just an appearance or an effort towards appearing like true holiness. That surface (aka &quot;projected&quot;) holiness is a mask. And those who wear this mask will be found out (Luke 12).

Christians, let&#039;s start our venture towards holiness by working from the inside out, like Christ intended. Our holiness &lt;em&gt;starts&lt;/em&gt; with our heart, not with our actions.

The End.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My word. This has gotten sort of off topic, much farther out than I ever intended. That&#8217;s normally not a huge deal, but its a little frustrating to me because I made a really good point about holiness but it seems folk are busy picking it apart instead of getting my point (which I&#8217;m not sure if anyone has really gotten my point yet). This isn&#8217;t that controversial. Let me try to explain it more clearly, getting to the very heart of the matter. (I think its more clear right here than any other time, so this sort of &#8220;overrides&#8221; everything else. I&#8217;m allowed to do that&#8230; its my blog):</p>
<p>True holiness is intended to firstly be something that&#8217;s between God, myself, and nobody else. It&#8217;s internal. The result of this will be a holiness that&#8217;s visible to others. Get that? One naturally <em>results</em> in the other. Often we get it confused and skip the internal part and we just make a holiness that everyone can see. This type of holiness is not rooted in an honest internal change but in pride. We just put on a projected holiness, a surface holiness that&#8217;s really just an appearance or an effort towards appearing like true holiness. That surface (aka &#8220;projected&#8221;) holiness is a mask. And those who wear this mask will be found out (Luke 12).</p>
<p>Christians, let&#8217;s start our venture towards holiness by working from the inside out, like Christ intended. Our holiness <em>starts</em> with our heart, not with our actions.</p>
<p>The End.</p>
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		<title>By: nathan</title>
		<link>http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-403</link>
		<dc:creator>nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 18:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/#comment-403</guid>
		<description>good point Todd. wise.
I think that is so true. i would like to adjust my previous post. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good point Todd. wise.<br />
I think that is so true. i would like to adjust my previous post. <img src='http://blog.adamdiehl.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-400</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 18:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/#comment-400</guid>
		<description>Holiness is not subjective.  Convictions are.

Holiness is a state in which we are called to live; free from sin and immorality.

Conviction is the Holy Spirit saying, &quot;That is not acceptable.&quot;

Drinking alcohol is prohibited for me, because I have a drinking problem. But responsible enjoyment of alcohol is not sinful.

BUT, viewing any person other than your wife or husband naked, is in my opinion (and prove me wrong) sinful.

Thus, the problems with pornography and movies with sex scenes and nudity.

My refusal to watch movies with nudity is not a personal conviction.  It&#039;s a Biblical one.  My refusal to avoid music that makes me feel aggressive is a personal conviction, brought on by the Holy Spirit, because of it&#039;s effect on me.

IF THE BIBLE SAYS THAT SOMETHING IS SINFUL,
no amount of philosophy is going to convince me that it&#039;s ok for ANYONE.

Personal convictions are just that.  I agree, you should NOT project them onto others.

But lets not confuse God&#039;s commands with personal stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holiness is not subjective.  Convictions are.</p>
<p>Holiness is a state in which we are called to live; free from sin and immorality.</p>
<p>Conviction is the Holy Spirit saying, &#8220;That is not acceptable.&#8221;</p>
<p>Drinking alcohol is prohibited for me, because I have a drinking problem. But responsible enjoyment of alcohol is not sinful.</p>
<p>BUT, viewing any person other than your wife or husband naked, is in my opinion (and prove me wrong) sinful.</p>
<p>Thus, the problems with pornography and movies with sex scenes and nudity.</p>
<p>My refusal to watch movies with nudity is not a personal conviction.  It&#8217;s a Biblical one.  My refusal to avoid music that makes me feel aggressive is a personal conviction, brought on by the Holy Spirit, because of it&#8217;s effect on me.</p>
<p>IF THE BIBLE SAYS THAT SOMETHING IS SINFUL,<br />
no amount of philosophy is going to convince me that it&#8217;s ok for ANYONE.</p>
<p>Personal convictions are just that.  I agree, you should NOT project them onto others.</p>
<p>But lets not confuse God&#8217;s commands with personal stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: nathan</title>
		<link>http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-399</link>
		<dc:creator>nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 14:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/#comment-399</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t really think this is a principle. Holiness is a conviction. A personal conviction.

For real-life examples:
God tells you should not do business at the BLABLA store because they support FOOBAR. Because God told you this, you try to convince others that because FOOBAR is always wrong, no one should shop at BLABLA. What happens when you are with a friend, and they want to shop at BLABLA? Do you say, &#039;I will sit in the car because God told me I can&#039;t shop here.&#039; This is understood as saying, &#039;I am holier than you.&#039; This is projected holiness.
The balance you ask for in this example is here: If your friend asks you, why you don&#039;t buy the cool lamp you&#039;re looking at, you can say, &#039;naaa. i don&#039;t like to shop here.&#039; if they ask, you can say more. But note: you aren&#039;t projecting your holiness--you are answering their questions. you might even say, &#039;hey, if you want to shop here, you have my blessing.&#039;

It is NOT our job to convict. We should make people who don&#039;t have the same holiness convictions as we do feel comfortable being around us, without compromising our standards--but without pressing our standards on them, too. And we should support their convictions (as long as they are Biblical!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really think this is a principle. Holiness is a conviction. A personal conviction.</p>
<p>For real-life examples:<br />
God tells you should not do business at the BLABLA store because they support FOOBAR. Because God told you this, you try to convince others that because FOOBAR is always wrong, no one should shop at BLABLA. What happens when you are with a friend, and they want to shop at BLABLA? Do you say, &#8216;I will sit in the car because God told me I can&#8217;t shop here.&#8217; This is understood as saying, &#8216;I am holier than you.&#8217; This is projected holiness.<br />
The balance you ask for in this example is here: If your friend asks you, why you don&#8217;t buy the cool lamp you&#8217;re looking at, you can say, &#8216;naaa. i don&#8217;t like to shop here.&#8217; if they ask, you can say more. But note: you aren&#8217;t projecting your holiness&#8211;you are answering their questions. you might even say, &#8216;hey, if you want to shop here, you have my blessing.&#8217;</p>
<p>It is NOT our job to convict. We should make people who don&#8217;t have the same holiness convictions as we do feel comfortable being around us, without compromising our standards&#8211;but without pressing our standards on them, too. And we should support their convictions (as long as they are Biblical!).</p>
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		<title>By: joe</title>
		<link>http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-396</link>
		<dc:creator>joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 08:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/#comment-396</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Tara on this...I don&#039;t always do well with an abstract principle. If I can just see it in action, in a real life application, it always makes SOOOOO much more sense, and I am better able to apply the principles in my own life.

Something like drinking is a pretty simple example, but life isn&#039;t usually simple, it&#039;s messy. So, what would a good practical example that involves some of the mess that life creates look like?

Tara&#039;s example is fantastic, I would love to hear good biblical council on the situation as it pertains to this post, but if not, another real life example would be great!

As far as there being two different types of situations, I think there is a LOT of bleed between the two, and they don&#039;t always separate so cleanly in real life. How do you deal with these &quot;blended&quot; situations?

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Tara on this&#8230;I don&#8217;t always do well with an abstract principle. If I can just see it in action, in a real life application, it always makes SOOOOO much more sense, and I am better able to apply the principles in my own life.</p>
<p>Something like drinking is a pretty simple example, but life isn&#8217;t usually simple, it&#8217;s messy. So, what would a good practical example that involves some of the mess that life creates look like?</p>
<p>Tara&#8217;s example is fantastic, I would love to hear good biblical council on the situation as it pertains to this post, but if not, another real life example would be great!</p>
<p>As far as there being two different types of situations, I think there is a LOT of bleed between the two, and they don&#8217;t always separate so cleanly in real life. How do you deal with these &#8220;blended&#8221; situations?</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/comment-page-1/#comment-394</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jan 2007 06:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.adamdiehl.com/2007/01/03/projected-holiness/#comment-394</guid>
		<description>Let me clarify alot. There are two types of situations, and we&#039;re all getting them confused. 

1) The questionable behavior is undeniably unbiblical. In this case, it is always scriptural to lovingly confront someone, with the understanding that the Holy Spirit convicts them ... not us. 

2) The questionable behavior is. . . well . . . questionable. When its not necessarily an unbiblical action. For example, the bible doesn&#039;t say drinking is a sin -- it just says not to get drunk. Many however, have personal convictions against drinking anything at all. Those people should not drink. But if another drinks, but does not get drunk, there is no scriptural evidence to say they are sinful. It is projected holiness to say, &quot;You shouldn&#039;t drink at all!&quot; 

I&#039;m more talking of the situation in #2. Situations in #1 should be dealt with ... lovingly. 

But in either situation, our holiness has a significant role in leading others towards Christ. If we are humbly and internally holy, it will effect others. If we are arrogant and projectively holy, it could often push people away. 

Often only YOU can tell if your holiness is being &quot;projected&quot; (I think &quot;hurled&quot; is a better word) towards others. It&#039;s an attitude thing. Deep down are you thinking, &quot;Look how holy I am!&quot; 

That&#039;s the issue. That&#039;s what I&#039;m talking about. It
It&#039;s about your attitude in living holy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me clarify alot. There are two types of situations, and we&#8217;re all getting them confused. </p>
<p>1) The questionable behavior is undeniably unbiblical. In this case, it is always scriptural to lovingly confront someone, with the understanding that the Holy Spirit convicts them &#8230; not us. </p>
<p>2) The questionable behavior is. . . well . . . questionable. When its not necessarily an unbiblical action. For example, the bible doesn&#8217;t say drinking is a sin &#8212; it just says not to get drunk. Many however, have personal convictions against drinking anything at all. Those people should not drink. But if another drinks, but does not get drunk, there is no scriptural evidence to say they are sinful. It is projected holiness to say, &#8220;You shouldn&#8217;t drink at all!&#8221; </p>
<p>I&#8217;m more talking of the situation in #2. Situations in #1 should be dealt with &#8230; lovingly. </p>
<p>But in either situation, our holiness has a significant role in leading others towards Christ. If we are humbly and internally holy, it will effect others. If we are arrogant and projectively holy, it could often push people away. </p>
<p>Often only YOU can tell if your holiness is being &#8220;projected&#8221; (I think &#8220;hurled&#8221; is a better word) towards others. It&#8217;s an attitude thing. Deep down are you thinking, &#8220;Look how holy I am!&#8221; </p>
<p>That&#8217;s the issue. That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m talking about. It<br />
It&#8217;s about your attitude in living holy.</p>
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